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	<title>Comments on: How &#8216;difficult&#8217; (using Esperantist terms) is an inflected language like Proto-Indo-European for Europeans?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://carlosquiles.com/indo-european-language-blog/2008/06/how-difficult-using-esperantist-terms-is-an-inflected-language-like-proto-indo-european-for-europeans/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://carlosquiles.com/indo-european-language-blog/2008/06/how-difficult-using-esperantist-terms-is-an-inflected-language-like-proto-indo-european-for-europeans/</link>
	<description>Proto-Indo-European Language, Indo-European Languages &#38; European Union Language Policy</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 10 May 2012 07:05:22 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Indo-European languages of Europe &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A simple FAQ about the &#8220;advantages&#8221; of Esperanto and other conlangs: &#8220;easy&#8221;, &#8220;neutral&#8221; and &#8220;number of speakers&#8221;</title>
		<link>http://carlosquiles.com/indo-european-language-blog/2008/06/how-difficult-using-esperantist-terms-is-an-inflected-language-like-proto-indo-european-for-europeans/comment-page-1/#comment-232</link>
		<dc:creator>Indo-European languages of Europe &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A simple FAQ about the &#8220;advantages&#8221; of Esperanto and other conlangs: &#8220;easy&#8221;, &#8220;neutral&#8221; and &#8220;number of speakers&#8221;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 12:46:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosquiles.com/indo-european-language-blog/?p=58#comment-232</guid>
		<description>[...] think it is as difficult as any Western European language? Do you really really think it is easier than English for a Chinese speaker? I guess good old Mr. Zamenhof didn&#8217;t realize that Poland, France, Italy, Great Britain and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] think it is as difficult as any Western European language? Do you really really think it is easier than English for a Chinese speaker? I guess good old Mr. Zamenhof didn&#8217;t realize that Poland, France, Italy, Great Britain and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Indo-European</title>
		<link>http://carlosquiles.com/indo-european-language-blog/2008/06/how-difficult-using-esperantist-terms-is-an-inflected-language-like-proto-indo-european-for-europeans/comment-page-1/#comment-123</link>
		<dc:creator>Indo-European</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 07:41:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosquiles.com/indo-european-language-blog/?p=58#comment-123</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I was thinking it would be interesting to write another grammar book where things are more easily explained for the average person;&lt;/blockquote&gt; 
&lt;blockquote&gt;I was actually thinking a few weeks back of just copying and pasting a single note from the appendix of the MIE Grammar each day&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If you want to copy&amp;paste everything in little pieces, or publish the Grammar yourself, with or without additions, or changing this or that part, that&#039;s OK, it&#039;s licensed as GFDL and CC-by-sa for that. That&#039;s why &lt;strong&gt;free licenses&lt;/strong&gt; are supposed to work so well, because people can make everything they want with free licensed material, without a need to ask for permission: some parts of the book are in fact taken from GFDL, Creative Commons or Public Domain works... If I die tomorrow  :shock: , the grammar will still be improved by others without a need for permission from me or my family.

&lt;code&gt;a word of the day type service could be interesting as well&lt;/code&gt;
I thought about preparing a &lt;strong&gt;Google widget&lt;/strong&gt; (for Google personalized Home Page) including that, but I&#039;m not a software developer, and it seemed to me too hard to learn how to do it. In fact, there was no need to show the &quot;MIE&quot; form, just showing the etymologies and the PIE phonetical writing would have been great. I prefer to spend time in text translations, grammar corrections, and translations of resources and websites, though. If you know somebody interested in developing such widgets, please tell!

&lt;blockquote&gt;those notes in the back explaining not just terms that came from Latin but other words&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I&#039;m glad to see that the &lt;strong&gt;etymological notes&lt;/strong&gt; I prepared gave somebody a better impression of the language revival! That section is something criticized by more &quot;purists&quot; who would like to show just the actual Proto-Indo-European common vocabulary (as in our &lt;a href=&quot;http://dnghu.org/en/proto-indo-european-language/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;essential lexicon&lt;/a&gt;) and not the MIE form of any derived word of well-known languages. So, for example, to say &quot;international&quot; using lit. translation &lt;strong&gt;entergnationalis&lt;/strong&gt; from Lat. &lt;em&gt;internationalis&lt;/em&gt; is possibly a bad choice for MIE, given the rest of possible words built in other Indo-European languages. I state it clearly in the beginning of the notes section, but it&#039;s probably still equivocal and weird to say &quot;&lt;em&gt;these are possible MIE words, but not all of them can be used in MIE&lt;/em&gt;&quot; :???:

That and other questions must still be dealt with: like the Latin ending &quot;-ta-t-is&quot;, as e.g. &lt;em&gt;Uniwersitatis&lt;/em&gt;, which is left for the moment as IE &quot;-ta(-t)&quot;, as MIE &lt;strong&gt;Oiniwersita(-t)&lt;/strong&gt; - because Old Indian shows the same abstract ending, a PIE -&lt;strong&gt;tat&lt;/strong&gt;, but not the further extension (hence a Latin innovation) in -&lt;em&gt;is&lt;/em&gt;... Or, the Italic and Armenian common ending -&lt;em&gt;tion&lt;/em&gt;, as in Lat. &quot;genera-tion&quot; (cf. Gk. &lt;em&gt;genesis&lt;/em&gt;&lt; IE &lt;strong&gt;gene&lt;/strong&gt;-&lt;strong&gt;tis&lt;/strong&gt;) etc. which has an addition -&lt;strong&gt;ti-&lt;u&gt;on&lt;/u&gt;&lt;/strong&gt; probably dialectal PIE addition unnecessary in most Modern Indo-European vocabulary. I still write it in legal terms, as &lt;strong&gt;adsoqiation&lt;/strong&gt;, &quot;association&quot;, because it is not an informal &quot;grouping&quot; (hence &lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;adsoqiatis&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;) but a Latin legal term; it is still somehow controversial to take all legal or medical terms (as the anatomic &lt;em&gt;nomina&lt;/em&gt;) for MIE, even if translated, because there are languages like German which show different terms for either or both, and most have  an Indo-European etymology too... 

As always, the ideas are there, but we lack the necessary time to carry out all projects, discussions and improvements. Time to time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I was thinking it would be interesting to write another grammar book where things are more easily explained for the average person;</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>I was actually thinking a few weeks back of just copying and pasting a single note from the appendix of the MIE Grammar each day</p></blockquote>
<p>If you want to copy&amp;paste everything in little pieces, or publish the Grammar yourself, with or without additions, or changing this or that part, that&#8217;s OK, it&#8217;s licensed as GFDL and CC-by-sa for that. That&#8217;s why <strong>free licenses</strong> are supposed to work so well, because people can make everything they want with free licensed material, without a need to ask for permission: some parts of the book are in fact taken from GFDL, Creative Commons or Public Domain works&#8230; If I die tomorrow  <img src='http://carlosquiles.com/indo-european-language-blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_eek.gif' alt=':shock:' class='wp-smiley' />  , the grammar will still be improved by others without a need for permission from me or my family.</p>
<p><code>a word of the day type service could be interesting as well</code><br />
I thought about preparing a <strong>Google widget</strong> (for Google personalized Home Page) including that, but I&#8217;m not a software developer, and it seemed to me too hard to learn how to do it. In fact, there was no need to show the &#8220;MIE&#8221; form, just showing the etymologies and the PIE phonetical writing would have been great. I prefer to spend time in text translations, grammar corrections, and translations of resources and websites, though. If you know somebody interested in developing such widgets, please tell!</p>
<blockquote><p>those notes in the back explaining not just terms that came from Latin but other words</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m glad to see that the <strong>etymological notes</strong> I prepared gave somebody a better impression of the language revival! That section is something criticized by more &#8220;purists&#8221; who would like to show just the actual Proto-Indo-European common vocabulary (as in our <a href="http://dnghu.org/en/proto-indo-european-language/" rel="nofollow">essential lexicon</a>) and not the MIE form of any derived word of well-known languages. So, for example, to say &#8220;international&#8221; using lit. translation <strong>entergnationalis</strong> from Lat. <em>internationalis</em> is possibly a bad choice for MIE, given the rest of possible words built in other Indo-European languages. I state it clearly in the beginning of the notes section, but it&#8217;s probably still equivocal and weird to say &#8220;<em>these are possible MIE words, but not all of them can be used in MIE</em>&#8221; <img src='http://carlosquiles.com/indo-european-language-blog/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_confused.gif' alt=':???:' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>That and other questions must still be dealt with: like the Latin ending &#8220;-ta-t-is&#8221;, as e.g. <em>Uniwersitatis</em>, which is left for the moment as IE &#8220;-ta(-t)&#8221;, as MIE <strong>Oiniwersita(-t)</strong> &#8211; because Old Indian shows the same abstract ending, a PIE -<strong>tat</strong>, but not the further extension (hence a Latin innovation) in -<em>is</em>&#8230; Or, the Italic and Armenian common ending -<em>tion</em>, as in Lat. &#8220;genera-tion&#8221; (cf. Gk. <em>genesis</em>&lt; IE <strong>gene</strong>-<strong>tis</strong>) etc. which has an addition -<strong>ti-<u>on</u></strong> probably dialectal PIE addition unnecessary in most Modern Indo-European vocabulary. I still write it in legal terms, as <strong>adsoqiation</strong>, &#8220;association&#8221;, because it is not an informal &#8220;grouping&#8221; (hence <strong><em>adsoqiatis</em></strong>) but a Latin legal term; it is still somehow controversial to take all legal or medical terms (as the anatomic <em>nomina</em>) for MIE, even if translated, because there are languages like German which show different terms for either or both, and most have  an Indo-European etymology too&#8230; </p>
<p>As always, the ideas are there, but we lack the necessary time to carry out all projects, discussions and improvements. Time to time.</p>
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		<title>By: Mithridates</title>
		<link>http://carlosquiles.com/indo-european-language-blog/2008/06/how-difficult-using-esperantist-terms-is-an-inflected-language-like-proto-indo-european-for-europeans/comment-page-1/#comment-121</link>
		<dc:creator>Mithridates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 05:12:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosquiles.com/indo-european-language-blog/?p=58#comment-121</guid>
		<description>You know, that&#039;s pretty much the main reason I found MIE to be attractive in the first place, those notes in the back explaining not just terms that came from Latin but other words that aren&#039;t really that well-explained like how the were in werewolf is related to vir- in virile, and so on. I was thinking it would be interesting to write another grammar book where things are more easily explained for the average person to show them exactly how MIE fits into the whole scheme of things. Something akin to how etymonline explains the origin of words:

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=werewolf&amp;searchmode=none

&quot;late O.E. werewulf &quot;person with the power to turn into a wolf,&quot; from wer &quot;man&quot; + wulf (see wolf; also see here for a short discussion of the mythology). The first element probably is from PIE *uiHro &quot;freeman&quot; (cf. Skt. vira-, Lith. vyras, L. vir, O.Ir. fer, Goth. wair). Cf. M.Du. weerwolf, O.H.G. werwolf, Swed. varulf. In the ancient Persian calendar, the eighth month (October-November) was Varkazana-, lit. &quot;(Month of the) Wolf-Men.&quot;&quot;

Or since that would take a lot of word perhaps a word of the day type service could be interesting as well. I was actually thinking a few weeks back of just copying and pasting a single note from the appendix of the MIE Grammar each day (not every note, just the ones I find to be particularly interesting) to the blog because one note at a time is very easy to digest for the average person.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know, that&#8217;s pretty much the main reason I found MIE to be attractive in the first place, those notes in the back explaining not just terms that came from Latin but other words that aren&#8217;t really that well-explained like how the were in werewolf is related to vir- in virile, and so on. I was thinking it would be interesting to write another grammar book where things are more easily explained for the average person to show them exactly how MIE fits into the whole scheme of things. Something akin to how etymonline explains the origin of words:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=werewolf&#038;searchmode=none" rel="nofollow">http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=werewolf&#038;searchmode=none</a></p>
<p>&#8220;late O.E. werewulf &#8220;person with the power to turn into a wolf,&#8221; from wer &#8220;man&#8221; + wulf (see wolf; also see here for a short discussion of the mythology). The first element probably is from PIE *uiHro &#8220;freeman&#8221; (cf. Skt. vira-, Lith. vyras, L. vir, O.Ir. fer, Goth. wair). Cf. M.Du. weerwolf, O.H.G. werwolf, Swed. varulf. In the ancient Persian calendar, the eighth month (October-November) was Varkazana-, lit. &#8220;(Month of the) Wolf-Men.&#8221;"</p>
<p>Or since that would take a lot of word perhaps a word of the day type service could be interesting as well. I was actually thinking a few weeks back of just copying and pasting a single note from the appendix of the MIE Grammar each day (not every note, just the ones I find to be particularly interesting) to the blog because one note at a time is very easy to digest for the average person.</p>
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		<title>By: Indo-European</title>
		<link>http://carlosquiles.com/indo-european-language-blog/2008/06/how-difficult-using-esperantist-terms-is-an-inflected-language-like-proto-indo-european-for-europeans/comment-page-1/#comment-120</link>
		<dc:creator>Indo-European</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 19:23:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://carlosquiles.com/indo-european-language-blog/?p=58#comment-120</guid>
		<description>Moreover, &lt;a href=&quot;http://mithridates.blogspot.com/2008/06/dont-dis-study-of-latin-says-letter-to.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Mithridates writes&lt;/a&gt;, following the letter of the editor of the &lt;u&gt;Bristol Herald Courier&lt;/u&gt; in Virginia, about the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.tricities.com/tri/news/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/article/dont_lightly_dismiss_the_study_of_latin_language/10211/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;importance of learning Latin&lt;/a&gt; for English speakers, that students who learn Latin show a greater knowledge of etymologies and Romance languages, and (because of that) have a better understanding of Science and Arts in general than those who don&#039;t. One should add that learning Greek, French and German would help students still more, just like Romance language speakers who learn Latin and English show better results than those who don&#039;t. And learning PIE would evidently be &lt;strong&gt;still more efficient&lt;/strong&gt;, as it helps understand not only the etymologies of Greek and Latin words, but also the relationship of that common Classical vocabulary with the rest of Indo-European languages (including the own, be it English, Polish or Persian), and a better understanding and easier learning of any other given classical language or old Indo-European dialect in general.

I don&#039;t know any study or statistics showing similar benefits of learning Esperanto or any other &quot;conlang&quot;, though...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moreover, <a href="http://mithridates.blogspot.com/2008/06/dont-dis-study-of-latin-says-letter-to.html" rel="nofollow">Mithridates writes</a>, following the letter of the editor of the <u>Bristol Herald Courier</u> in Virginia, about the <a href="http://www.tricities.com/tri/news/opinion/letters_to_the_editor/article/dont_lightly_dismiss_the_study_of_latin_language/10211/" rel="nofollow">importance of learning Latin</a> for English speakers, that students who learn Latin show a greater knowledge of etymologies and Romance languages, and (because of that) have a better understanding of Science and Arts in general than those who don&#8217;t. One should add that learning Greek, French and German would help students still more, just like Romance language speakers who learn Latin and English show better results than those who don&#8217;t. And learning PIE would evidently be <strong>still more efficient</strong>, as it helps understand not only the etymologies of Greek and Latin words, but also the relationship of that common Classical vocabulary with the rest of Indo-European languages (including the own, be it English, Polish or Persian), and a better understanding and easier learning of any other given classical language or old Indo-European dialect in general.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know any study or statistics showing similar benefits of learning Esperanto or any other &#8220;conlang&#8221;, though&#8230;</p>
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